Help- I'm really tempted to do something to my hair
like get a perm.  I know perms are bad, bad bad but
I'm going through a hate my hair stage.  It's growing
below my shoulders(Yay! ;D but it looks so flat and
thin.  It's so challenged in the horizantal volume dept.
Normally I would wash my hair every other day and
use a volumizing mousse or gel.  But I'm trying to
A. CO wash only except once a week shampoo
with a non sulfate poo.
B. Not use volumizing sprays and stuff because
they all contain such  bad things as alcohol and
PVP colpolomers and stuff.  
My hair IS feeling healthy and silky and not as frizzy
(Thanks to the CO washes) but  also growing out
my bangs it just looks so yuck :(  Please tell me not
to perm it-must resist-must resist

DON'T DO IT BABYFINE!!

Put...the perm rods....down!
Back away from them with your hands behind your head. Don't make me call for backup.  :o ;)

We all go through stages of "I hate my hair", etc. (For me, it's virtually everyday!) You've done really well to refrain from using volumizing sprays and whatnot. Why would you want to screw up all that hard work by gettin a perm?

My hair has gone past the shoulders now too, and I feel like its thin all the time. On days when I want a bit of "oommph" I use the cool shot on my hair dyers after gettin out the the shower and do a job on it.

Do you wear your hair up much? I think thats helped me a lot too. Wearing it up makes me forget how much it gets on my nerves. LOL

Anyhoo, us fine haired lassies gotta stick together so don't do anything drastic!  ::)

Oh thank you Rua!! I wanted someone to talk me
out of it!  I know I would hate myself if I really ever
permed it.  I do wear it up a lot now.  I'm still looking
for one of those donut things.   Maybe if I get brave
in a couple of months I can do a henna color to give
it some lift and colour.  I know perms are so bad.
Every time I get tempted I look up perm in the search
and read how they have to break the disulfide bonds
in your hair to change the shape.  That scares me off
at least for a while.

Thats good! Keep lookin up the negative side effects of perms on the web!

The last time I did a perm was when I was about 17. I coloured it shortly afterwards which was a BIG mistake. My hair was so porous from the perm that it sucked in all the colour and went black. And not a nice black either. It was a kinda ashy browny black. It took me an AGE and a HALF to get it back to the red that I love.

I gradually cut the perm out and I've never done it since. Perms do look nice, and they give a bit of change for awhile, but the negatives are more prominent than the positives in the long run as regards the after effects.
Especially for fine haired folk, me thinks!

I recently bought some of those flexi curler thingys. Whenever I feel like I need a major change I put those in after washing to give a bit of bounce. We all need a change sometimes!

I searched around the net a bit to see if I could find any info on those hair donuts I told you about. (They are hard to find on the net for the states - which is mad cuz they can be found in any Claires accesories shop out here!)

The closest thing I could find was a shop in the UK that ships to the States. Heres the link:

http://www.cd-hairbeautyproducts.co.uk/index2.asp

Scroll down until you get to the "Hair Donut Bun Ring".
That gives you an idea as to what they are and look like! I have two brown ones. Maybe Sallys Beauty in the States has them?

Let me know how you get on!  :D

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! no perms!!!!

love your gorgeous fine hair! remember....you'll never have to deal with headaches from HEAVY hair and all the other problems that thick haired people have  :)

we love you just the way you are!  ;D

Oh you guys are great!!  If it wasn't for you guys I would
have either chopped my hair off or messed it up
with a perm long ago.  That's what always happens to
me.  I'm so glad for your support.  when it gets long enough to do a good long braid, that will be a good
way to wear it, too.  Rua, I'll check into that site for
donut rings.  My local Claires Accesorries didn't have
them.  Thanks you guys !! :)

Yes, flaming bunny, there is a couple of advantages
to fine hair- no headaches from updo, hair will never
get that heavy.  Also, shorter air drying time!!

ive always wondered....how on earth do you use those doughnut things??

Ah they are brilliant! They don't work too well if your hair isn't long enough, but if it is, it's a quick up 'do that looks really neat and professional.

You pull all your hair up as if you were going to put it into a ponytail. (You can even fasten it into a ponytail if you want.)
Then pull all of your hair through the center of the donut and then wrap the hair back on itself, to cover over the whole donut.
Tuck the ends in all underneath the donut and the end result gives you a perfect looking bun.
That probaby doesn't make any sense whatsoever....when you see it in action, it's really simple. It makes you look like you've got sooo much more hair than you actually do.

A major plus for fine haired folk!

My grandmother used to have one of these and I have used it before but I don't know where it got off to.  They are just very, very clever! 8)

I've kind of been wondering if I could make one of these? Any ideas?

TIA!

I'm not finehaired, and I don't know what is meant by "hair donut bun ring"... ;D ;D ;D but is it something like those rolled up pantyhose thingies?? Like when you put on a thigh-high then roll the edge down all the way to the toes? You get a donut, kinda, and it goes over a bun. Just a thought.

Hugs,
Anais

:DYes, Anais; that is a very good description!  My grandmother used to refer to hers as a 'rat'.

I thought about rolling up some knee-high hose or else try to poke a hole in the middle of one of those plastic-scrubby pot-scrubber things-just not steele wool!lol

Here is Rua's link if you want to see one; just keep scrolling down:
http://www.cd-hairbeautyproducts.co.uk/index2.asp

strawberryfine 8)

I can't scroll down for some reason. That's okay...

and.... a pot scrubber? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/AnaisSatin/bigeyes.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/AnaisSatin/bigeyes.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/AnaisSatin/bigeyes.gif I think I'm missing something, Strawberryfine.

Anais

My mother used to have one of those, too.  I remember
her using it when I was a little girl(a long time ago)
She never uses it now, she's 78 and her hairs too
short.  I'll have to ask her if she still has it next time
I see her.

Anais, if I remember my moms, It looked like a donut
but was made out of foam or something.   I've never
been able to find one these days, maybe I'll have to
order from Rua's site.

My aunt had really really long hair passed her knees (I come from a long hair loving family ;D ) and she used a variety of 'rats'. My aunt made them from her own hair combings that she removed from her brush. I guess she would just take the hair out of her brush each time after using add it to what she already had and kind of work the hair together to form it into whatever shape she wanted to have as a foundation. I never did it myself but I know the 'rats' she made worked because she gave me a couple that I still have and use. (when I'm not to lazy to give myself a nice 'do')  :D

oh, Babyfine - PLEASE listen the the sage advice of your fine-haired 'sisters' in regard to perms!!!!!

I have finally, after 8 years cut the last of a spiral perm from my hair - this summer a 5 inch 'trim' saw the end of the dry, broken, constantly splitting, miserably dull and perm-discolored ends that I have been dealing with these many years.  It had finally come to the point that my hair could not be worn 'down', but had to be up - for almost 2 years - to distract from the terrible discoloration/fading/dullness brought on by the harsh perm solution on the then very old ends.

It was a moment of madness that led me to the perm - though I have much density in my hair, it too is baby fine.  (thanks, dad - why couldn't I have gotten mom's abundantly thick, curly auburn hair..... :-/  )  My cousin in south dakota has a salon.  She and my other cousin, her sister (also a stylist) took an entire day spiral curling my then hip length hair....  They had to go to the beauty supply twice to get more loop-rods, and it took 3 people supporting my head to get me to the rinse out basin because of the weight.  The perm was absolutely stunning, and I adored it.... Wearing it down was an event that always brought pleasant compliments........

BUT.... the maintenance:
coating it with nasty, sticky (alcohol-based)gel after each washing.....then "scrunching" it dry in front of a high powered space heater - which despite my hair's fineness - took nearly an hour every other day....   :-[

Because of the perm, the less than nourshing post-perm shampoo and conditioners, the never-ending 'coating' products, the heat needed to maintain the "bouncy" look, so I didn't have lanky pulled out curls...(if air dried, the sheer length of the hair distorted and pulled the curls till they were quite ugly) :-/

My hair was in the worst shape that it had been in 15 years - since highschool (when I "brilliantly" chose to go from my natural medium brown to a blindingly white blond - which I followed up with a "crimped" perm - to my waist-length hair  :o ...... but that horror is another story - when I was 17 and completely sure that I had a never ending supply of quick-growing healthy hair...)

At 41, I have resolved NEVER AGAIN to so disregard my hair.   I'm pleased that my existing length (tailbone at present) is healthy, smooth, free from splits or discoloration and HAPPY. ;D   It never regained it's pre-perm density, however - no matter the vitamins, supplements, hair-friendly diet, strict care regime and  TLC  - quite probably due to my age and general health... but I am finally pleased with it's appearance - and am able to wear it down once again, when the mood hits me :)

So, Babyfine - PLEASE trust us, and run, screaming from the salon!

nightowl :)

Thanks, nightowl.  I know I don't REALLY want a perm.
As you said, it looks great for a few months until  it
starts looking ratty.   I have no perm in my hair right
now- The last of the old perm was cut of Jul'03 when
I got my chin length bob.  But I've been getting highlights put in.  The last of the highlights was in May
so I have 3" of virgin hair, mousy brown with a few
grays coming in.   I'm tempted to just highlight with
color(No bleach) the roots.  Like you I think I've lost
density, too.  My hair has always been ultra ultra fine,
but I think I have less of it now.  Could be all the
chemical things I've been doing although the last six
months I've been giving it lots of TLC.  My age could
definatly be a factor.  I hate to wear it down, now, because it is so flat and thin looking.  It looked OK
until it got below the shoulders.. Then it lost
volume.  How long is your hair now?  Mines about an
inch below the shoulders.

Never mind the last question, I see you hair is tailbone
length.  That's my goal, or waist length blunt cut all
one length.   I'm 48, so I'm sure hormones are going
to be affecting my hair.

The only reason I ever permed my hair was because
it was suggested to me as a necessity by stylists from
the time I was 21.  I went on a crash diet and my hair
thinned out some.  I had BSL length hair, the longest
its ever been in my life.  My hairdresser said you need
a perm or you should cut it, so I permed it.  I was a perm addict for many years, about once a year, when
I didn't cut  it short. I wore it short all through the 80's
and until 91 when i decided to grow it long.  

My favorite way to get body when I know I'm wearing it down is to wash or wet it several hours before bedtime, and braid it snugly once it is just dry.  

I apply a tiny amount of Jojoba oil to the last 12 inches of hair. Then, I do my Hair Hairband (from another thread), and either one high braid in the back or sometimes two.  

I then wrap the braids around hair friendly rollers high on the head, or rag roll the braids to the top of my head.

In the morning I let out the curlers and then the braids and finger comb my hair - Sometimes I'll do a very loose single french braid, or a high pony tail, or just pull the front section back into a clip and wear it loose.  The braiding of fractionally wet hair gives me about 75% more volume, and it stays that way until washed, and looks very soft and 'fluffy' if 3 braids total were done, deeply wavy if 2 braids were done.  

Once or twice, on occasions when I had WAY too much time on my hands, I've done a "water perm".  Using the larger sized loop perm rods (I use about 25 of them) I rolled up my hair using endpapers and rods when it was just dried.  I keep the rods in overnight (no, not a good night's rest with that monstrosity on my head and I sleep on 4 down pillows when they're in, just to prevent any strain or pressure on my hair) ... but the morning result is a head full of long bouncy, beautiful spiral curls.  I just finger through them once, then leave them alone.   It's great for a REALLY special occasion - family photo day, attending wedding, etc - but the invested time is quite ridiculous, as they only last about 8-12 hours before looking stringy and limp.  But - it is a nice change of pace for a day, and once every year or so it appeases my desire for curls ;D

nightowl

Thanks nightowl, those sound like some good ideas.
I've thought of buying some perm rods and doing
a water perm myself, but like you said its hard to
fine the time and I don't think I could ever sleep on
them. I have a hard time sleeping even on soft rollers,
but sometimes when I have time in the a.m. I wash or
wet my hair and wait until its 90% dry and set it on
solar rollers (bought at Claire's) and it comes out with
some body.